I know, I know. Talk of new suppliers - particularly engine suppliers - often turns out to be little more than rumour and hearsay.

But I have it on very good authority that Sauber are in talks with VW about future engine supply, and that some of those talks have been taking place behind closed doors in the Hockenheim paddock.

If you read Joe Saward's blog (and you should), you will know that talk of VW entering the sport as an engine supplier is hardly the freshest of news. He's been banging on about it for donkeys' years.

There are eleventy billion reasons why VW would benefit from Formula One - make that eleventy billion and one now that Le Mans has announced that the 2014-spec F1 engine will be acceptable to them - with the revised engine formula.

But this is the first time that I have been given the name of a specific team in talks with Volkswagen, so I think it bears listening to.

Sauber and VW would be a good fit in marketing terms. The car manufacturer is the constructor of the people, and the same could be said for Sauber - the Swiss team and Williams are the paddock's two (long-standing) privateers, even allowing for Sauber's recent relationship with BMW.

Anyway, Sauber and VW share a number of core brand values, and signing up to a new engine supplier would free the Swiss team from Ferrari's influence. Never a bad thing.

Thanks to the relationship with Carlos Slim Jr - which was triggered by Ferrari Driver Academy star Sergio Perez, but which would continue through Esteban Gutierrez were the older Mexican to leave with a change of engine supplier - Sauber have access to funds that were beyond their wildest dreams at the end of 2009. And that's a pretty liberating position to be in, especially when you're shopping around for suppliers.

Of course, that's not to say that Slim Jr has given Sauber carte blanche with his wallet - far from it. But when I interviewed him in Barcelona earlier this year, Slim Jr acknowledged that - were the opportunity presented to him - he would be interested in acquiring a stake in the team.

Peter Sauber will eventually retire, which is why he has given Monisha Kaltenborn a 33 percent stake in his team. Peter knows and trusts Monisha as a proper racer who knows what she's doing, and one who fully understands the Sauber ethos. She preaches continuity and stability as a means of improvement, and were Slim Jr to acquire a stake in Sauber after Peter's retirement, Kaltenborn's presence will ensure the Sauber spirit is not lost.

TL;DR?

I digress. Sauber are said to be in engine talks with VW. VW would benefit from a presence in post-2014 Formula One. Sauber are in a position to shop around for a new supplier, and would benefit from independence within the paddock.

Will these talks come to anything? Who knows. But they're worth keeping an eye on, no question.
 


Comments

21/07/2012 22:43

VW or Porsche....?
:)

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21/07/2012 22:44

VW specifically. That's what I was told, anyway!

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21/07/2012 22:47

That's be interesting. Should the regs match up, Porsche will be entering LPM1 in 2014, with virtually the exact same engine as their parent company would do in F1.

Not forgetting of course hat Audi will also be continuing in LMP1, despite the presence of their sister team.

21/07/2012 22:52

If the regs do match, it'd be foolish not to - one set of development costs to cover a minimum of three teams across two championships. From VW's point of view, that's practically license to print money, once the initial dev work has been paid for.

21/07/2012 22:57

The only major differences I can think of would be with regard to the utilisation of hybrid technology, which - to be fair - F1 has fallen behind in.

Audi are very happy with the Williams' flywheel technology, yet from the outside no one in F1 seems too pushed about it.
Porsche may be tempted by a ERS-style technology should the rules allow, which would kind of be a shame really.

21/07/2012 23:01

I think the Williams fly-wheel got a bad rep in F1 when it was tested but never raced, although the kinks have now been worked out and it's popular outside of the sport.

But the really exciting thing about 2014 (IMHO) is TERS - what sort of work have they done with that in LMP? Anyone, I mean - I don't know enough about the WEC to have any authoritah on the subject.

21/07/2012 23:24

Not at the moment I believe. There was lots of talk about TERS from about 4/5 years ago, but it didn't quite take off, mainly (I think) because it needed a lot more research.

At the time, it appeared the gains were simply outweighed by the lack of application knowledge --- and politics; let's not forget the politics.
These may yet evolve shortly after the 2014 season as a greater level of understanding develops.

I think, sadly, the drive to keep costs down and to hold onto close competition may put a grinding halt to any startling new discoveries or developments with this type of technology.

21/07/2012 23:27

Oh, by the way. It'll be interesting to watch out for Garage 56 at Le Mans next year.
That entry is supposed to be hydrogen powered. Also another hydrogen powered car was being run at Formula Student last weekend.

No idea quite how efficient any of it was yet (I need to do a bit of reading next week), but it was all interesting stuff.

22/07/2012 12:07

I know we say it ALL THE TIME, but I want to see an end to these restrictions. Give people a limited fuel weight (if petrol-powered), maybe cap a top speed for safety, and limit the size of the cars. Beyond that, let the mad scientists work their magic so we can test the limits of power, speed, and efficiency.

THAT is racing innovation. In my usually not very humble at all opinion.

TonyTaylor
22/07/2012 00:26

Wouldnt be unusual for an engine to have different names on the cam covers to suit publicity. Ford DFV for example and it's later offspring.

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22/07/2012 12:04

It's a great way to make money. If I were Craig Pollock that's how I'd sell the PURE engines.

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Leigh Woolford
22/07/2012 11:46

Joe Saward also flirted with the idea that a VW engine could lead to the return of the Auto Union name to F1. I think, from memory (and my memory isn't that good) that Joe dismissed the idea but I would love to see that. Echoes of Bernd Rosemeyer et al.

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22/07/2012 12:05

I think the problem with Auto Union as a brand is the psychological link to Hitler and his funding of the project. I don't think that's an association any marketing department wants to make...

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Leigh Woolford
22/07/2012 13:27

It's a good point but in the film you linked to, the Mercs were running with Swastikas on them! Old Adolf funded them too....

22/07/2012 19:10

True, but I think the association has moved on. I mean, you don't hear Audi and think of Hitler's investment programme in quite the same way as you do when you hear the words Auto-Union. That you is generic, by the way - I'm not forcing thoughts into your head. ;)

22/07/2012 21:09

The VW rumour is older than F1 Magazine! For those of you who weren't around at the time, it launched in March 2001 and one of its major stories in its first issue was a VW entry rumour. I trust this edition of the rumour is on more solid ground, but the way they've behaved over the previous 13 years, I'll believe their presence when I see it. Nothing against anyone discussing it, I'm just not inclined to trust VW...

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22/07/2012 21:47

Fair enough! I think they've had some motorsport-friendly personnel changes since the last lot of these rumours, but that's still no guarantee...

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Leigh Woolford
23/07/2012 13:39

I am really very surprised by your viewpoint Kate (and you aren't putting ideas into my head, there isn't any room in there).

Hitler initially promised the 500,000 Reich marks to Mercedes-Benz for them to build a racing team to beat the world. It was only later that Auto Union board member Klaus von Oertzen and driver Hans Stuck made a visit to Hitler and persuaded him to split the 500,000 between Auto Union and Mercedes. Remember, this was in 1933, a long time before the war. I’m not condoning the connection, but just giving it’s proper perspective.

All German car making of the period was greatly influenced by the Nazis; not least the ‘Peoples Car’ and the Beetle doesn’t have any Nazi stigma these days!

Also, the main guiding light of Auto Union was Ferdinand Porsche.

Then there is Bernd Rosemeyer who famously cocked a snook at the Nazis, as great personal risk, even though he and wife Elly Beinhorn were the Posh and Becks or pre war Germany.

So, if you associate Auto Union with Hitler, you have to give the same weighting to Porsche, Volkswagen and Mercedes Benz!!

Have you read 'Racing the Silver Arrows' by Chris Nixon? If not, I'd recommend it thoroughly.

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23/07/2012 13:52

Sorry, I've not been expressing myself well. It's something I tend to be bad at when my brain is fried over a GP weekend.

I'm aware of the history (and it's a great book - recommended to anyone reading this comment thread), but I was thinking of it in marketing terms, and for people who might not have the same knowledge of motorsport history as someone like you or I.

Take my dad, for example. He's a historian who knows less than nothing about cars. And while he's aware of Hitler's motorsport investment efforts, the name Mercedes-Benz has, over time, broken the association with Nazism. VW are the same - look at all the hippies who were (and are) happy to drive Hitler's car of the people.

The two brands have existed in the same name form for so long post-Hitler that (for the man on the street) that mental connection is no longer there. Or, if it is, it's a weak association and not too emotive.

Audi managed to create a similar effect by changing their name. Auto Union is irrevocably intertwined with the Third Reich as a brand in a way that Audi isn't. So reviving the Auto Union brand would revive historic associations with Hitler that Audi have worked hard to dissolve.

This is all IMHO, by the way. But it's a really interesting debate, both in terms of history and the emotional association of branding. I mean, IBM helped design the systems that enabled Hitler to process Jews in concentration camps, but no one uses that as an excuse not to buy into their technology.

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elephino
25/07/2012 05:14

One of the reasons Auto Union is joined with the Nazis and Mercedes/VW/BMW are not is that as a brand Auto Union ended shortly after the war and so there was no real post-war history to "clear the air" (couldn't think of a better phrase when writing this).

25/07/2012 17:44

That's okay, I did a pretty good job of saying exactly that in the comment you replied to.

elephino
27/07/2012 04:46

Damn you and your superior writing skills :)

Leigh Woolford
23/07/2012 13:57

An interesting discussion and I do see your point of view. I guess my love of racing allows the association to fade. Sorry if I inundated your blog with replies! I kept getting error messages. Surprised it got through!

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23/07/2012 14:02

Well it's all a matter of opinion, isn't it? I think you're right, though - those of us who've trawled the web for black and white footage of the likes of Rosemeyer and Nuvolari can look at those brands in pure racing terms (or as manufacturers of some of the sexiest cars of the pre-war era), whereas people who think racing is just cars circling for hours on end are more likely to have the Hitler trigger.

God only knows what was going on with weebly. At some point when I have the time I'm going to need to move this site over to a better host.

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Leigh Woolford
23/07/2012 14:07

Hmmm, I have a weebly site too but I haven't added a blog yet.

If you are ever bored, have a look. (Nothing to do with motor racing though).
http://eyefoto.weebly.com/index.html

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23/07/2012 14:22

God, your shots are BEAUTIFUL. I've spent quite a bit of time on the west coast of Scotland, so the shots of Oban and Skye were particularly striking to me as I've seen the places with my own two eyes.

Absolutely stunning work - I'm gobsmacked.

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Leigh Woolford
23/07/2012 14:27

You are too kind :-)

23/07/2012 18:08

Meanwhile, Lotus are pulling out of IndyCar at the end of this season.

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23/07/2012 21:49

Now that's what I call extending your commitment!

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24/07/2012 11:14

Absolutely - the remaining four years of Lotus' IndyCar contract will be intriguing to say the least.

24/07/2012 13:41

I might be reading too much into this, but it sounds like DRB-Hicom have decided that any penalties for early exit are cheaper than continuing with the programme. Will they do the same maths in LMP?

24/07/2012 13:48

It'd be a great shame if Lotus did not bother with LMP2 - the cost-cap* effectively makes it one of the cheapest forms of "near top tier" motorsport.

Although LMP2 was technically a programme to entice privateer's, Lotus could still learn an awful lot about LMP1 structure from the category.

* (note - for a season, an LMP2 chassis costs a max of €355,000 and an engine package is are €75,000)

25/07/2012 17:47

Assuming that LMP1 is still a long-term goal of theirs, then it seems mad to pull out of LMP2. But who knows what will happen when DRB-Hicom finish working out how best to balance the post-Bahar books. I read rumours earlier today of the brand being up for sale again, but god knows how credible they are. I mean, I could start a rumour right here, right now about Hispano-Suiza being reborn and taking over HRT, but that wouldn't make it true. (Hint for any rumour-mongerers reading this: It's not. I made it up just now to illustrate a point.)

elephino
27/07/2012 04:49

I read today about an unnamed source within VW rejecting the VW to F1 rumours.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/112072646637/volkswagen-source-rejects-sauber-tie-up-rumours

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